26 replies to this topic

[Elizander]

"However it’s not all peace, tranquility and the calm passing on of wise Street Fighter knowledge. Ono is more than aware of the expectations worldwide for Street Fighter 5. “We have so much feedback being blared at us all the time. But what I’ve learned over the years is that it’s not always the loudest voices that you need to listen to,” he says. “Often these people don’t represent the masses. So it’s a case of finding key people in communities around the world, those who aren’t as visible perhaps, in order to hear their take. Obviously, you can never make everyone happy, but if we can make the majority happy, then I'm confident in Street Fighter's future."

- Ono from an interview about SFV

( Source -http://www.gamesrada...ghter-5-pc-ps4/ )

Just sharing what one guy thinks about feedback.

Edited by Elizander, 15 April 2015 - 03:51 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Sounds about right.

Even if we have only 1,000 players voicing opinions, DEVs cannot listen to all of them.

[Juodas Varnas]

Joseph Mallan, on 15 April 2015 - 03:53 AM, said:

Sounds about right.

Even if we have only 1,000 players voicing opinions, DEVs cannot listen to all of them.

Unless that 1000 people are saying the EXACT same thing.

[Joseph Mallan]

Juodas Varnas, on 15 April 2015 - 04:20 AM, said:

Unless that 1000 people are saying the EXACT same thing.

That is more improbable than you think.

[Joseph Mallan]

LordBraxton, on 15 April 2015 - 04:11 AM, said:

This is telling me we should all brown nose more, like bishop, to get stuff done.

You are confusing Championing like Don Quixote with brown nosing. Bish tilted at windmills for months to get the Urban.

[Gyrok]

Juodas Varnas, on 15 April 2015 - 04:20 AM, said:

Unless that 1000 people are saying the EXACT same thing.

Honestly, even if they were...

Look at the fiasco where PGI took out the hard coded mode switches to get "better matches". The "forum community" was 90% behind it, yet when it happened the 10% on the forums saying no turned out to express the opinion of the masses that do not come here and it was removed. When the second poll showed that as many people as voted yes came onto the forums for the first time ever to vote against it, it was clear the forums are only a small, vocal minority.

[sycocys]

I think most of the problem here is their total lack of communication with us and what much of the time appears to be a total and blatant ignoring of those of us that are here (including many of us who have been around since the start).

When you launch your game and within a month or two totally abandon the people that were putting in a lot of hours sorting out bugs and balance for you in favor of social media outlets that a good portion of them don't even use, issues will arise.

We don't mind being a partial cross section of the community, if the devs would be communicating here instead of in a dozen other places on the net, then you'd have a much more balanced group of people to discuss changes and the future of the game with that wouldn't get so riled up because the team responsible for creating their entertainment would actually be communicating with them.

Edited by sycocys, 15 April 2015 - 05:50 AM.

[Gyrok]

sycocys, on 15 April 2015 - 05:50 AM, said:

I think most of the problem here is their total lack of communication with us and what much of the time appears to be a total and blatant ignoring of those of us that are here (including many of us who have been around since the start).

When you launch your game and within a month or two totally abandon the people that were putting in a lot of hours sorting out bugs and balance for you in favor of social media outlets that a good portion of them don't even use, issues will arise.

We don't mind being a partial cross section of the community, if the devs would be communicating here instead of in a dozen other places on the net, then you'd have a much more balanced group of people to discuss changes and the future of the game with that wouldn't get so riled up because the team responsible for creating their entertainment would actually be communicating with them.

I would venture to say that they communicate other places because this is an extremely small, extremely vocal, minority. These forums carry a lot of opinionated people who are more than happy to spew vitriol all over these forums...

If I was developing this game, you bet I would reach out to other audiences that are not this one more often. It takes 5 minutes in general discussion to see this is a dumping ground for frustration and very little useful information comes out of here. The few good suggestions are typically buried over their head with threads about LRMs being OP, or people b*tching about clan mechs (which are clearly not OP at this point...), or whatever else it was they were mad about this morning, or killed them in the last match. Then they proclaim themselves a god among mere mortals in MWO and demand PGI listen.

Who wants to deal with that crap?

[Soy]

SaltyBet gives all the Street Fighter feedback that Capcom could possibly ever need.

[Kilo 40]

Elizander, on 15 April 2015 - 03:49 AM, said:

“Often these people don’t represent the masses.

no. but if they are loud enough and harass the devs enough, they can get their way AND get a free cockpit item.

[Alistair Winter]

Gyrok, on 15 April 2015 - 05:56 AM, said:

Who wants to deal with that crap?

Companies that use community managers to interact with the players, nominate "Most valuable post of the week", respond to good ideas and let the players know that they're being forwarded to the devs, regularly let their top executive, along with various devs and producers, answer questions from their paying customers, even on a weekly basis,

These guys come to mind:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/

Btw, after "Concern" threads (i.e. a thread where someone predicts that a certain element will become a major problem in the future) became a running joke in the Star Citizen general forum, the mods actually started a dedicated Concern forum, with specific rules. Each OP had to include a poll, making it easier for the devs to gather consensus. Threads with loads of replies and a clear consensus are more likely to get a reply from the devs or the community managers.

Pretty cool. It actually has the double effect of a] steering a lot of negativity away from the General forum and b] showing the players their feedback is taken seriously.

Edited by Alistair Winter, 15 April 2015 - 06:10 AM.

[Rebas Kradd]

The primary problem is that most of the feedback PGI receives is...

* Contradictory;

* Technically infeasible for this small team;

* Requesting stuff that's very low priority (collisions, website work);

* Requesting sweeping features and redesigns of such massive scope that they'd require six months of design review;

* Too plentiful for devs to answer every post anyway;

So usually the devs just kind of shrug and move on without answering, and then the community feels "ignored" and gets butthurt. The reality is that the community doesn't really know how to give workable feedback. Our requests rarely fall within the parameters of PGI's scope and manpower. We just want the moon. And we each think that our particular moon is vital to the health of the game (I'm no exception).

I really wish PGI would give us some better parameters within which to give feedback, but for the most part, it's on us to quit asking for the moon. We're not being ignored because the devs don't give a ****; we're being ignored because they're not NASA.

Although again, PGI, even an actual deferment ("Not on our plate right now, too low a priority") would be nice, instead of just nothing.

Edited by Rebas Kradd, 15 April 2015 - 06:14 AM.

[GentlemanBryan]

[Darwins Dog]

There comes a point where you have to accept that your chosen form of communication is not necessarily the same as everyone else's. Case in point: Russ likes to use twitter. You may not like it, but that's the way it is. To borrow a quote from the LRMs are OP threads: Learn and adapt. Make a twitter account, type a short message starting with @russ_bullock, and watch how fast he replies. It took less than 3 hours to get a personal response to my question.

I think PGI would benefit from occasional player surveys that pop up in the client (they could even give 50,000 cbills or something for taking one). If they run for a week they would get most of their active players to at least see it (if not take it). This forum is not the place for effective communication though. People even complain when stuff goes on sale. The latest sale took 3 posts before someone was complaining that it was just a cash grab (with a spreadsheet too).

P.S. - if you are interested, send me a PM with your twitter handle and I will send you the list I've created. It has all of the active people at PGI, and is a good place to see what's going on.

[DaZur]

LordBraxton, on 15 April 2015 - 04:11 AM, said:

This is telling me we should all brown nose more, like bishop, to get stuff done.

Interesting.... I read it to say, Being a raging douche is a sure fire way to be ignored by the devs.

[Mawai]

Joseph Mallan, on 15 April 2015 - 03:53 AM, said:

Sounds about right.

Even if we have only 1,000 players voicing opinions, DEVs cannot listen to all of them.

Yes. However, this also means that if the devs listen to the wrong set of players ... the odds of their game success decline substantially.

This is probably why games could really use some sort of survey system.

In addition, the devs have the numbers ...

Look at CW. PGI can compare the number of people playing CW to the number of people playing in both group and solo PUG queues. They can compare the relative spending of these folks. This data should tell them a lot about where they should be focusing their efforts.

- do they need to focus on CW?
- do they need to focus on the creation of more regular game content? Maps, game modes like Solaris arena with varying team size, etc ...
- do they need to focus on the creation of a solo/cooperative/PVE campaign?
- do they need to revamp the XP system to make it more interesting and supportive of role warfare and customization?
- do they need leaderboards and leagues for competitive or esports players?

Which of these will generate the most new players, encourage player retention and increase revenues?

If they listen to folks that do not represent the majorty of players or potential players, or if they don't listen to anyone and just go off and do their own thing ... they will get likely get it wrong. Only time will tell how it turns out.

[Almond Brown]

In the new age of "Social Media", the antiquated form of communications called a "Forum" is fast becoming passe'. (for obvious reasons that we clearly see here each and every day) :{

If nothing else, it is good to see that the Dev's are embracing these new communications tools and one can only feel bad for those who just cannot get out of their own personal rut called the Past.

No one got left behind. Some, it seems, have just decided they would stay mired where they are and just feel sorry for themselves. It is a choice is all. Living with those choices, not all good, can be the hardest part.

P.S. All most gamers/players should really need is access to "Patch" contents.

Edited by Almond Brown, 15 April 2015 - 11:13 AM.

[Kristov Kerensky]

And Ono is correct, something learned from years of doing this work according to the interview no less.

The vocal minority is still a minority, no matter how loud they are and it's often best to ignore them and seek out the quiet majority who say little unless directly approached and asked.

A very small portion of the playerbase for MWO actually uses the forums, so saying that the consensus on the forums proves a statement is right or wrong is really quite silly, there's not enough of us on these forums to give anything stated here any weight at all.

People on these forums seem to think they are the be all and end all of MWO however, just look through the various sections and you can see that. Combined with the vitriol and unabashed hatred of MWO/PGI, I wouldn't even bother with these forums were I on the dev team.

[Soy]

Almond Brown, on 15 April 2015 - 07:17 AM, said:

In the new age of "Social Media", the antiquated form of communications called a "Forum" is fast becoming passe'. (for obvious reasons that we clearly see here each and every day) :{

If nothing else, it is good to see that the Dev's are embracing these new communications tools and one can only feel bad for those who just cannot out of their own personal rut called the Past.

No one got left behind. Some, it seems, have just decided they would stay mired where they are and just feel sorry for themselves. It is a choice is all. Living with those choices, not all good, can be the hardest part.

P.S. All most gamers/players should really need is access to "Patch" contents.

What exactly are these obvious reasons.

I fail to see why an auxiliary form of communication, one which generally only serves purposes related to marketing, is some amazing new medium of communication that renders a forum obsolete.

Facebook hasn't exactly replaced real books (thank the stars). It replaced Myspace, an equally banal pile of garbage for soccer moms and/or emo kids to feel 'connected' to a web they know jack **** about.

[Xetelian]

LordBraxton, on 15 April 2015 - 04:11 AM, said:

This is telling me we should all brown nose more, like bishop, to get stuff done.

I'm not here to defend bishop.